TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE OF JENNY WILSON, A WORKING CLASS YOUNG
WOMAN FROM VICTORIAN ENGLAND.
FROM THE LESLIE FLINT ARCHIVES
RECORDED ON APRIL 26 1971
I am Jenny. [Repeated several times] How are you? Good, I am very well too. You
are Spirits too, but you are still on the earth. I am a Spirit too, not on the earth. That’s
the only difference between you and me. I have been here a long time now. I did not
believe all this when I was on your side. No. Now I know better. You are Spiritualists,
as they call them, and understand. You believe in communication; that’s why I’m here.
I had my share of trouble but now I haven’t got a care in the world.
[She is asked where she lived on earth]
I was brought up in the country in a place called Smallfoot [?]…. I was one of a
family of eleven children and when we were quite small children we would have to be
up early in the morning and go to work in the fields; sometimes potato picking,
according to the season; sometimes stone picking; all sorts of things to earn a few
extra coppers. I married when I was eighteen. My husband worked on a farm as a
labourer, ploughing, hoeing, and all the rest of it according to the seasons.
I died in childbirth with my first child. I was out in the fields. In those days we had to
work up to the very last moment and then you were lucky if you had a doctor; usually
a woman in the village, or someone, would help. Both the baby and me died in a
hedge. I have been here many years now. People don’t know what we people had to
suffer in those days.
Q [She is asked if she brought up her baby in the spirit world]
Yes, and I have here now beside me my daughter, and if you could see us we look
like each other. I don’t look any older and she has grown up to a fine young woman
now. My husband married again, and he is here now and we are often together on this
side of life. But we do not live together, but we are together—do you understand? I
find it very funny coming to talk to you in this way. I hope you can hear what I say.
Q [Asked how long since she died]
It must be getting on now for a hundred years, I suppose, it was Queen Victoria on the
throne. I once saw the Queen.
Q [Asked how did she bring up her child in the spirit world?]
Well, as far as I can tell you, it was the same as you would have done, more or less,
on earth, excepting, as far as I can understand in my own experience you don’t have
some sort of material ways. It’s I suppose to do with…really you have to realise that
the spirit that you are bringing up and educating and helping…. it’s not the body in
the same way… it looks much the same…and it takes time I suppose, like it would
have done on earth …but it is…one is conscious, I suppose, in a way, of time. I
suppose in my case it’s because I was young and the child was new. I was given the
joy of bringing the child up as if it were almost the same as on earth. I watched her
gradually grow up and play with other children of the same sort of age, and gradually
go to school and learn various things that were considered necessary, and of course I
taught her little things, and I…but I realised that I had no education…I couldn’t read
or write, I had never been to school in my life and I wasn’t able to do much in that
way; all I could help her with was to realise and to think of the right sort of things,
and to pass her time in learning and gaining all the knowledge that she could from
others, but she and I worked together in a nice little place, a cottage, which I’d always
hoped that my husband and I would have had eventually, but it wasn’t to be.
Q [Did you have a cottage on earth?]
Oh no, we had to live with his parents, oh…shocking.
My married name was Wilson, Jane… Jenny, and his name was Bill.
I go now to all sorts of interesting places, and I have learned a great deal on this side,
and I have educated myself… or been educated, I suppose you’d say…..but the funny
thing is, coming here seems strange…and I can’t seem to get hold of my real self….I
find myself sort of like I was….
[Coughing on tape]
Got a cold? That’s one thing we don’t have over here. No colds, nothing like that, no sickness, no illness, no nothing like that. Oh it’s wonderful.
My daughter dances, and she loves music, and she’s a beautiful dancer…oh she is
really beautiful…you should see her…she’s like a what-you-call-it…a fairy. Of
course over here, you see, they have great processions and great get-togethers or …oh
I don’t know what you call them. …pageants,… or something like that …and they
have great sort of places where you go… and all sorts of beautiful things
happen…music…and colour…and dancing...and oh it’s very beautiful…and she plays
in some of these here ceremonies as you call them, you see…and she is really good
you know….I often wondered you know…well of course… I mean, I never had a
chance to do anything when I was on your side…because of …well. I ‘d never been to
what they call a theatre on your side…the nearest thing I ever went to was something
not far from where we lived in the town where they had a company come…some
playings..., they used to come…in the town hall, you know, that’s all I’d ever seen,
and that was…well, oh I don’t know quite now how that was, that I went there, but I
did, and it was nice.
Q [She is asked what her nearest town was]
Q [She is asked if she felt bewildered and surprised when she passed over with her
Yes I was, rather…. but …oh dear…I think there’s something gone wrong
[Here she appears to think there is a communication breakdown]
We used to have a wagon and we used to go to the nearest town sometimes…they let us have the wagon…and us and the villagers we used to go to the market town and
that’s where once I went to this…it wasn’t a theatre…it was this town hall …and they
was doing some plays…don’t remember what it was now…long time ago. Of course
over here I’ve seen wonderful plays, and wonderful things …I have…ohh…just
marvellous…of course I’m so different now!....here’s me talking to you in this way,
and I can hear myself in a strange kind of way and I’m saying to myself, Now that’s
not you Jenny…not as you are now, that’s as you was…and you know it’s most funny,
it’s as if somehow as I come and I talk to you… as if I’m the old self …and I
wouldn’t want to stay like that…oh, not for anything! I want to be what I am now,
and talk and say things like I can do, not like I was.
It’s funny, this box thing isn’t it? Oh I don’t know what they do with it…it’s a very
funny business isn’t it? I’ve heard about you actually from several things…you’ve
been to these what-you-call-them…séances?...oh yes…Oh I remember those days in the country….never knew anything much from the time when I was quite a small
child and we’d be in the country in the fields and ….ah well…they were terrible
days…people don’t know how terrible they was for people like us ….oh terrible. Now
I come and I see what goes on in your world …and I don’t know….I suppose of
course things are much better for the ordinary people…much better…better, better,
better altogether…but it is a frightening world…oh with all them motorcars and
things…of course we had none of them…oh they’re horrible, horrible…shouldn’t
want to be with you now…I’m happy…lovely house, lovely place, lovely
people …oh goodness me I wouldn’t come back for anything. I don’t mind coming
just for a minute to have a word, but oh I wouldn’t want to come back and make a life, oh no I wouldn’t want that.
Q[She is asked who helped her when she passed over}
Well there was a very beautiful lady. I remember being under the hedge, and I knew
that I was going to die; I don’t know how I knew I was. And some woman, or two women actually, friends of mine and one of them had gone running off to try and get
help…and the other one was there…there we was in the hedge… you know…. and I
knew I was going to die…I knew…I knew…I don’t know how I knew…but I knew I
was...and it was just as if…I don’t know…it was just as if I was drifting and drifting
away…and I could hear this friend trying to help and comfort… but of course there
was nothing they could do under the circumstances and I knew I was going to pass, as
you call it….and anyway I remember sort of was losing myself and then finding
myself…that’s funny isn’t it?.
And there I was standing…standing in the fields and I had got this baby in my arms!
But I just didn’t understand it at all…that I should be standing in the middle of this field…and you know, with a baby…and all around me I could see miles of scenes of
country…and yet it was not the same country I’d been used to… but different
Q [More beautiful?]
Yes…in a way…but different.
Q [Were there trees?
Well there was and there wasn’t…there were trees…but I knew they weren’t real
trees…and the countryside wasn’t real countryside…and I guess, sort of deep down
inside me felt lost…as if I was in a dream...and I had a feeling I was in a kind of
dream…and that all these things would disappear…and the trees were different...I had
never seen trees like this at all…they were big trees and they’d got great big leaves
hanging … long branches…and I learned afterwards that they were trees like you see
in foreign parts
Q [Any flowers on them?]
No they were just like these palms…that I had occasionally seen in church...you know,
at Easter…and I realised that I was in a strange sort of country like nothing I’d seen
before…and yet it wasn’t real …and all of a sudden I saw a procession… well that’s
what I thought it was …of people…all dressed in beautiful garments…coming up a
wide sort of road…and I was coming out of this field…and it seems as if I was on this
road…and then as I was walking towards this crowd of people…and all these
beautiful colours and clothes…as if something was happening to me….and gradually
everything changed…and the whole scene was different…and I was standing
beside…well, what looked like the sea…and yet it wasn’t the sea…I’d never seen the
sea…I’d never been to the sea…I’d heard about the sea…but I saw all this great
water …and I had no idea.
I’d heard rather from what people had said you know… that people had read, you
know… these things that they’d written, books, sometimes, you know…we used to
have someone who sometimes used to read to us…it sounded as if I was in some
foreign part…as if it sort of tallied with what I’d heard about Jesus, and Galilee… and
there was a lot of people all standing and listening… and up on the sort of rocks there
was this man…beautiful man, with beautiful black hair, ever so shiny , and beautiful
eyes …and he was sort of talking to these people …and there was a lot of
children…and, I don’t know, I just thought of what I’d heard in the church when the
man read to us about Jesus, and Galilee …and it all seemed to have something to do
with him…and I was there with this child of mine… and very sort of… I don’t
know… worried… and you know I didn’t know where I was or what I was or who I
was , hardly… it was most peculiar and it was as if almost all the time I was thinking
of what was happening…and yet at the same time I was thinking about myself in that
hedge and my friend and the baby,
And I think I must have been in a peculiar sort of state…that’s what I’ve heard
since…that evidently I was in this state of mind… what I was told afterwards was that
what I went through then was a sort of…I don’t know whether you’d call it a
dream.. ...But it was a peculiar state where `I was neither in one place nor the
other …anyway I was sort of caught up with all these here people that were sitting
around and listening …and I could hear this voice…. but it was funny because I could
hear the voice and yet the man didn’t appear to be speaking anything and I could sort
of feel that I was being drawn towards him… and as I walked forward people sort of moved aside… and there was great sort of music going on…I don’t know what it
was… there was no people there playing any fiddles or anything… and it was as if I
was sort of… I don’t know… hearing things that weren’t being said… and hearing
things that weren’t being played… and instruments I didn’t see… but it was like
beautiful church music, but much better than anything we’d ever had in our church.
And I could hear this music getting louder and louder and louder and I could hear this
voice which was calling me to go forward towards the man who was sitting on this
rock …and this man looked like…well not like Jesus… because the pictures I’d seen
of Jesus…he’d always been a fair bloke you know…and this man was dark… oh very
dark…very dark complexion, olive complexion… very black eyes… very wonderful
eyes they were… and his hair was hanging to his shoulders …and oh I just felt drawn
there …and somehow as I got nearer and nearer and nearer ....it was just as if
everything disappeared …everything just disappeared.
And then I woke up in a very nice room …with the baby beside me...in a very nice
room …and there was people standing there smiling at me …and there I was in bed
with a baby in my arms …in this pretty room …and there were several people
standing round ...people I didn’t know, but all seemed so happy and so kind …and I
was told that I had arrived and that all was well and there was nothing to worry about
any more …that this would be my home… I would be looked after with the
child …that this would make up to me for all the unhappiness I had known…and that
this would be my future place in which I would gradually find a new self…that’s how
they put it…a new self.
I didn’t understand and they said: Don’t worry and just be patient and leave
everything to us …just close your eyes and lose yourself ...just be quiet and at peace
and when you come round later we’ll tell you more about everything but this is not
the right moment …just know that you’ve come home and you are safe and so is the
baby …and later we’ll tell you more about it …oh it was wonderful…it was as if in
some way this beautiful, beautiful experience, as you say, I had with this beautiful
man, and I was told afterwards that this was the Christ, manifesting himself as he
does …that’s the way they put it and I’ve learned since many of these things… and
words and things…manifesting, they called it, his spirit to those who are coming
from the darkness into the light and were being received into the realms of spiritual
love…and that this was my reception, they called it , and that all was well …that I
wasn’t to be unhappy any more…and that my child and I had been given new life in
the realms of happiness, as they called it .
I suppose they said these things, obviously, that I would understand them …but I’ve learned a lot more since…much more, oh much more …but you did ask me about
how I came …but I can’t say any more now …it’s been rather difficult, I had to get
someone to help me because I felt as if I was drifting away from you...but I’ve, you
know, done my bit for you …and I’ll try and come again and tell you what, you
know…how things have been since my coming …but I can say that this business of
dying is…well…, there’s nothing much to it really …I suppose it’s natural we all fear
it when on your side …but it’s natural and it’s not that different really from being
born …in a kind of way it is like being born again …like we was told in the old days
in the church …but of course it is natural …nothing unnatural or strange ....no one
need worry …I’m beautifully happy and I’m very much …well I’m very much more
advanced I suppose now, obviously , but you did ask me to talk about this… so that’s
why I tried to get my thoughts on the old things, the early things, you see…anyway I’ll come if I can another time …I must go. Bye-bye.